King... I have not commented directly to you before, so I hope you do not mind my doing so right now:

You have commented a few times during this "old" theme about seeing images of people in your age group or younger being labeled as "old". I can understand how at one level this may feel as if it it were a corruption of your idea of "old". For me, however, I think the images of people that have been submitted (for the most part) have used the people's expressions/demeanor/and character to relay the "oldness". I think the stereotypical use of individuals with a few wrinkles or with grey hair is simply that... a stereotypical cue that helps set a stereotypical mood for the photographer to paint his/her own idea of "old" upon.

I believe you are write in that people from a variety of other age cohorts could also be used to represent old as well.... and conversely people in the 50s, 60s, 70s & 80s cohorts could also be utilized to capture "non-old" themes.... "young" "youthful" etc.

I am rambling a lot (apologies, it is early here) so I shall try to close... I anticipated seeing a lot of images of people with grey hair... but not because they WERE old but simply because it was an easy, shorthand way for many folks to frame their imagery around the theme and then layer the "oldness" to it.

Also, King, I wanted to tell you that I greatly appreciate your imagery and your commentary here on WS. You are one of the people who I look most forward to seeing comments from and I learn a great deal about technique from study of your images.

Thank you.

Of course, in the above, I should have "right" not "write in the third paragraph. My apologies.

Lange,

Thanks for talking back! :>)

I was just using your image as probably the last forum I would have to protest. I've said elsewhere that I am in the job market, and age discrimination is killing many opportunities. I'm an expert in my field and at the top of my game (as I wrote elswhere). It is clear to me that corporations who have strict guidelines against discrimination of any kind have hiring managers who disciminate *out of their awareness.* They interview someone in their 50's or later and their sub-conscious labels the person "Old" by virture of the values in our society--the resume goes on the bottom of the pile.

My complaint is not just personal. This is a serious issue for aging people everywhere in America. I'm just trying to open a few eyes. If the theme were "Older Than I Am Today," that would be one thing, but the pejorative denotation and conotations of "Old Person" are destructive to our society, in my opinion.

Mtmartini pointed out elsewhere than many of the photos of old people seemed to illustrate things like "sad," but it is clear that, given good health, older people are happier (on average) than younger people. Take a look. This image and Tanja's #118 are exceptions.

King,

Thank-you for your contructive input on the techinical matters of my photograph.

As for your comment: "Of course, this woman doesn't appear to be sad, tired or pathetic, but I'm still weary of being part of the "old" group."

I'm not quite sure why this got so personal for you at age 62 unless someone posted a picture of you for the theme... I suppose it hit a nerve somewhere. There is background to this portrait, notably this woman, at age 82, discussing her experiences in Hungary during WWII. As far as I am conerned, this all fits the theme, even though unlike you, I don't see "old" though such a negative lens. I see it as a mark of experience with much to offer. My mother in law, at age 80, still works part-time as a physiatrist and my 80-year-old father in law just retired this year.

As for the relevance to the theme, I see this as no more cliché or stereotypical than a picture of a worn down shack or an abandoned gas station.

Thanks to all of you for the discussion.

King:

Thank you for your reply to me. Please note, however, that the photographer is LUCAS, not me. I was just commenting on your comment of his image.

I agree with you about age discrimination issues and the "law" versus many people's innate impressions. And I also agree with your ideas about "older" people often being happier on average... hell, I agree with most every thing you write about here in WS. :)

My comment was only meant to put a slightly different "spin" on what I think guided many here to pick an individual who was perhaps in only their 50s or 60s to represent "old".

I am hoping to start submitting images again relatively soon... for I will greatly appreciate your comments. I think your work is wonderful and your comments are typically very helpful to the photographer.

I have not posted in quite a while because of an unfortunate illness/death in my family, but I am hoping to be able to get the energy back soon. My first step was to get back to commenting and evaluating images.

Again, thank you for all your efforts, King

@Lucas...my hunch is that you are not a U.S. citizen. I wasn't at all complaining about your fine photograph of this woman. I was simply sharing my personal experience as an "old" person in the United States and the fact that I experience the theme in a different way, perhaps, than do some others. It's just conversation.

As for your comment: "I'm not quite sure why this got so personal for you at age 62 unless someone posted a picture of you for the theme," please take the time to read the comments attached to this photo and I think you will understand that some folks have strong feelings about how others in their group are portrayed (and I'm not taking sides on the issue):

http://www.weeklyshot.org/theme/big/response/79/

@Lange...I'm guilty of reading to fast--Lucas, Lange. I see that Lucas took the photo, but I don't think that my remarks need to be read any differently, so long as the image is attributed correctly to Lucas.

I'm sorry for your loss. Perhaps you've seen my note to you attached to another of your photos, welcoming you back to W.S.

Thanks for the words of appreciation.

@King... Hehe, you're very perceptive, I'm not in the US.

I think what I was implying by my comment to you was that I don't see people in their 60's in the same "group" as people in their 80's, any more than I see people in their 20's to be in the same group as those in their 40's.

Thanks for the link. Incredible the conversations that will emerge from photography, no?